Friends, it’s with great trepidation that I write this post. It was generated by the accusation made by Ahmadinejad at the U.N. that the U.S. Government was involved not only in the destruction of the Twin Towers, but also a nearby building that also inexplicably collapsed despite the fact that no aircraft hit it.
As you would be aware, there have been a lot of questions asked since 9/11 and a lot of conjecture that the two aircraft couldn’t have caused the damage that occurred. The internet has been alive with it. There have also been claims that there was evidence of explosives in the debris.
There have been claims that Mossad was involved as well, that they knew of the attack but said nothing, that they might have put the explosives there. I have read these reports, the many claims but I have not written about them because I was unsure just how much truth there was in them. I still don’t!
I have also, for several years, had doubts about the moon landing. My cousin first raised that issue with me and my reaction was to think he was slightly crazy. But, over the years, and having watched the footage which looks more and more unreal to me each time I see it, I become less convinced that the moon landing was real and I feel that what we saw was created in Hollywood to give the Russians a scare. Again I don’t know but I have suspicions especially after hearing that some of the black and white footage has mysteriously disappeared.
Added to all this conjecture is the fact that America has been involved over the years in false-flag operations (the Tonkin incident, the Panama and Grenada invasions, etc). It has also told a lot of lies. The extent of the lies was partly revealed by the recently leaked Wikileaks information (and video footage of the helicopter gunning down Iraqi civilians) which showed the world what was really happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now Obama has angrily denied the Iranian President’s accusation about 9/11 but then he would, wouldn’t he? Of course Obama is happy to make sweeping accusations against Ahmadinejad which may or may not be true. Obama’s even threatened him with the use of nuclear bombs if all other threats fail. Obama frequently says, “All measures are on the table.”
I guess the bottom line is that we live in a world where much of the time we don’t know what the truth is. We know that governments lie, politicians lie, the MSM lies, the Armed Forces lie, corporations lie (cigarettes don’t cause cancer), clerics lie, that the police lie when it suits them, etc. Lying is entrenched in every society, every culture.
It’s hard to seek and find truth when so many people in the world are, for their own preservation or advantage, hiding it.
It’s a shame that the story of Pinocchio doesn’t become a reality. Then at least we’d know who were the liars!
But we still wouldn’t be any closer to the truth, would we?
dear David,
appreciate Your blog very much,
but there is a caveat to watch, when considering 911 and/versus the moon landing:
It is the hard facts versus correlations, among others.
because I work in the field of ‘extraterrestrial physics’, i.e. construction of instruments for satellites and telescopes, i would say, it is quite easy to debunk the ‘moon-landing fake’ hypothesis.
1) the communications from the Apollo missions have been recorded from all over the western world via radio telescopes: Australia, Europe, US …
Via triangulation and other methods it could be easily identified, where the signals were coming from.
2) e.g. Apollo 11,14, 15 placed laser reflectors on the moon, which are operational til today.
So You can, even with sophisticated amateur equipment verify their existence.
Any unmanned vehicles placing them can be excluded with 99.99…percentage probability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
So You would be forced to distrust not only the scientific community but Your own set of skills, if You apply them!
This is as close as one can get. At least to my opinion.
———————–
It is different with 911, because the causal chain, so to say, is not closed.
I am quite open-minded concerning 911, because the official story is so full of holes that a lot of alternative hypotheses are possible.
LIHOP, MIHOP etc.
I don’t know.
But it would be silly to exclude them, considering current knowledge.
For me, one of the most disturbing ‘theories’ is Jeff Wells’ ‘coincidence theory’
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html
Even IF those coincidences were mere coincidences, it would be deeply disturbing, because such a cluster of happenings would imply, that ‘we’ have only marginal control over circumstances, and I dare not know what is more disturbing:
Evil spirits -which we eventually could identify and then control- or some dominant reign of chaos in the world?
What do we have?
Some belief, that rationality in combination with compassion and a sense for the whole can limit both of them?
We have to be careful.
Very careful!
best regards,
Groo
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anotherbob Reply:
July 15th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Groo, nice comment! As I see it there are evil spirits with names – e.g. Greed and Pride and Lying and Killing that can be defined and controlled by defining and practicing their antithesis e.g. Generousity and Humility and Truth telling and Healing. We need not fear evil spirits in ourselves if we work at defining good and then doing good.
Our ancestors of thousands of years likewise perceived chaos in the world and created tools language, math, and sciences to combat chaos with knowledge, order and a measure of predictability. We have I believe excelled in this and standing the shoulders of many before us have relegate chaos all the way done to the quantum level and back to the big bang.
Unfortunately for us we have not found any way to convince other people of the necessity of pursuing the good spirit – Virtue/truth. Chaos still reigns due to the lies that frustrate all of our intellectual tools so that deniers and financial crooks and warriors still get to make our world chaotic by their practice of and delight in evil.
I believe that rationality, which is self interested, with empathy, wholisticly persued can in ones small world (we are after all, small animals) limit both evil and its progeny chaos. Any attempt to expand ones influence beyond persons, however,while tempting winds up being evil and reproduces chaos.
David G. – Great post. The Moon is too far away to be of use in controlling events on earth, but it did prove that the Empire could, with accuracy deliver a nuke anywhere on the planet, while at the same time advancing rocket guidance technology so that satellites and now Low orbit space ships, the future of drone power, could be developed. More chaos.
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Where does the difference come from?
Between conspiracy and verifyability?
a) a weakness of the mind
b) a belief in axioms.
This deeply disturbing dichotomy comes from
a) a tendencial openness
b) a tendencial closedness
of the mind.
(a) weakens up the mind,
(b) closes the mind at the cost of alternative-less axioms.
What to believe?
Your lying eyes or what I say? (Marx Brothers)
Ist ‘truth’ a social endeavor?
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David i am one of those crazies who doubt the moon landing ha ha ha well i cant say i completely dont believe it ,but i have my doubts i guess some things that make me question it is if they actually were capable of landing on the moon there would probably be capatilistic interest up there digging around looking for gold oil etc ,or they would be setting up weapons systems despite treaties to the contrary , treaties arent worth the paper there written on when it comes to capitalistic interest . although i also would also think that technology isnt quite up to that where it would make it cost effective ,as far as 911 is concerned i doubt the official story it could have been any one of several scenarios .when we are lied too constantly it makes every official story unbelievable , It seems the powers that be were planning the invasion of iraq before they even got elected or selected whatever the case ,The real reasoning behind the iraq invasion was sadaam was busting his opec oil quota and flooding the market with cheap oil . And that had to stop they always talk about the free flow of oil but that is the last thing they want in a world thats addicted to fossil fuel .they wanted to make sure those fields were kept under the control of big oil and not to mention gaining more of a toe hoild in th middle east for military bases etc . groo makes alot of good points and obviously understands this tecnology but i dont doubt they have put instrumentation on the moon .
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I always distrust anything that my government says. I have learned over the years that is most likely either an all out lie or, at least, a half truth.
I have never though much about the moon landing, but 911 has always disturbed me. Having read a lot written by people who have the knowledge to understand the science behind 911. I do not beleive that three buildings dropped perfectly in their track just from the planes flying into them. Especially since Building 7 was never hit by a plane and had little fire damage. There is so much info that even I, who knows little about science, can see how the offical story does not make sense.
Since the steel from the buildings was shipped over seas to be melted down as soon as it was removed from the site a lot of evidence was lost. Strange that it wasn’t saved so it could be studied to find the reason for the collaspe. Unless the reason was known to a few and was needed to be kept secret.
It is so easy to see how the MSM slants the news when they report on someone like Iran’s president. All he is doing is tell the truth, but after years of the media demonizing him no one will even listen to what he has to say much less take it seriously.
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groo Reply:
September 25th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
jeannie,
please do not confuse what the government or the MSM say with what science ‘says’.
Science, at its best at least, is a way of thinking.
If You fundamentally distrust science, You are soon lost and find yourself in the dubious crowd of teabaggers, climate change deniers and what have You.
Science has its flaws, no doubt, especially when it crosses the borders to pure logic, and outs itself as as a system of axioms, especially when it ponders what is before the big bang or the smaller than small, e.g. string theory.
Those are identifiable ‘black holes’ of thought, and the community knows quite well to separate those speculative domains of thought from the rigid but incomplete chains of thought.
Keeping our mental marbles together is difficult, but not more than in medieval times.
So lets stick to that over what we have command !
More than enough for a life to separate the shitheads from the thoughtful and doubtful.
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David and All -
Please listen to what Groo said about the Moon landings. They DID take place! It is a case of false equivalency to try and compare what happened on 9/11 and the Apollo program. I have already responded to this before by telling you that there were laser reflectors placed on the Moon by several missions and they are used to this day to determine the distance from the Moon to the Earth, a distance which is growing slowly larger over the long years. Yes, the Moon used to be closer to the Earth in it’s orbit. Don’t take the word of some cheesy websites that claim to have “proof” because they say the shadows are wrong or whatever. In my previous comment about this I told you that a video on You Tube is available which takes apart all of these “theories” from people who, frankly, don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Lastly, it is unfair to demean the work and long careers of the skilled scientists and technicians who worked to make the Apollo program a success.
As to 9/11 I, too, have serious doubts. I have heard the accounts of people who saw members of the Mossad jumping up and down in another borough of NYC and cheering as they watched the Twin Towers hit, the implication being that they knew that it would happen.
I have also been suspicious of the 9/11 Commission or 9/11 “Omission Report” in that they never came to any conclusion about what made Building 7 fall, saying that they would address it later but never did. There was damage to the 47 story building. It had been impacted by pieces of one of the Twin Towers but it was a strong steel-framed building and the fires in it were certainly not severe and yet it also came down at near free fall speeds into it’s own footprint.
Another problem I have that has never been addressed in detail is why the Twin Towers came down in the very same way when they were hit differently. One was hit more or less in the middle of the floors it crashed into but the other was hit more obliquely and a bit off to the side. You can see this in the videos. Why did both buildings come down the same way? Even if I am wrong and the planes did cause the collapse of both Twin Towers I want to know why Building #7 came down and why there were so many large explosions in the buildings heard before and after the planes hit. I want to know why more a a thousand building architects have signed a petition to reopen the investigation because they are not satisfied with the final conclusions.
As it is, the Neocons who took full advantage of this disaster had their way and proceeded full speed ahead after the “New Pearl Harbor” mentioned in their PNAC report from the 90s. And Americans? Well, Americans have almost no sense of history or the necessity to learn from it. I suspect that to most Americans 9/11 was merely the Big Excuse to go and kick “raghead” butt. As George W. Bush once said, “I don’t do nuance.” Neither do we.
In 5 weeks less than 50% of Americans will go the polls and, quite likely, swing the country even more to the Right. They will do it because may of them believe the vile Tea Party rhetoric and fail to understand that the Tea Party is a front for the ruling elites and some reactionary billionaires like the Koch Brothers to make them feel as if they really have a voice in the way the country is being governed. They have enormous resentment toward Democratic incumbents and it looks like the hapless Democratic party may lose both houses of Congress. If that happens and some right-wing idiot is elected President in 2012 I can assure you that we will all have a lot more to worry about than whether the U.S. actually landed on the Moon or if 9/11 was a U.S. govt. false flag operation.
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One more thing. Please remember the words of the great American journalist, I.F. Stone -
“Governments lie.”
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Groo, you raise some interesting points. My response to the moon landing question is: if they went there and it was so successful, why haven’t the American’s been back? Why haven’t they set up a military base there? Your question about ‘what to believe’ in a world filled with liars is pertinent!
Jeff, I agree that it’s a relatively simple task to put instrumentation on the moon given they’ve reached Mars. Of course, if most humans believe that a god exists and they’ll live forever, they’ll believe anything! We are gullible creatures.
Jeannie, as I made clear in my post, I don’t know what the truth is about the moon landing or 9/11. But I subscribe to your position of treating what the government says as a lie or, at best, a half-truth.
I agree with Groo that keeping our mental marbles together is important although it’s not easy. At least science gives us something tangible to hold on to.
Bruce, as always your comment is informative and direct. I guess my post was really about the amount of lying that goes on in the world and what affect that has on us, the little people who are, in the main, suckers who believe what we want to believe (present company excluded)!
For example, anyone who believes that invading and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan has made us safer clearly has rocks in their heads.
Cheers.
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David -
I certainly agree with you about the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. They were a neo-con wet dream and hacks like Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol stated at the beginning of these brutal military campaigns that they were the precursor for a new Middle East filled with freedom and democracy. Hmmm, I don’t see that at all, rather quite the opposite. Despite this appalling lack of judgment by Kristol and establishment whores like him, they are still regarded by our MSM as suitable commentators on the activities we continue to expand in that region under Barry the Liar. It is stupefying to me that Americans can be so easily hoodwinked by these treasonous gangsters. They have been completely discredited and yet they still get prestigious positions with universities and major media outlets.
If there is still a history being written about the United States in a hundred years it will state that our obsession with creating “Full Spectrum Dominance” in the Middle East and elsewhere was one of the singular reasons for our decline and collapse. We are in Iraq, Afghanistan and, later, possibly in Pakistan and Iran for the reason that this is a protracted resource war and a geopolitical dominance war. The Middle East has been considered as the ultimate prize by the U.S. State Department since the 1940s and the government (whether it is Rethug or Dimocrat) will make the country pay any price to follow the dictates of their playbook on foreign policy. That is the great tragedy of my country, that we spent TRILLIONS trying to create an empire that bankrupted us financially and morally while we could have created the greatest society in history, one which other countries would have felt compelled to emulate, not because of war waged on them or barbaric economic sanctions, but because they wanted to follow our just and prosperous example.
I fully expect Obama to be a one-term president. What deeply worries me is what will follow him. Read David Michael Green’s essay on Common Dreams this week. It spells out a lot of what I feel is coming.
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Grace Reply:
September 26th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
“..the great tragedy of my country, that we spent TRILLIONS trying to create an empire that bankrupted us financially and morally while we could have created the greatest society in history, one which other countries would have felt compelled to emulate, not because of war waged on them or barbaric economic sanctions, but because they wanted to follow our just and prosperous example.”
Yes, this is the greatest tragedy. Especially considering the now long-term outlook.
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Bruce, it is an irony indeed that America, which had such kudos and capital after WW2, has followed in the footsteps of Hitler. It is now the major invading and occupying nation. It is the one building military bases all over the world in order to enforce its rule upon the world. It is involved in torture and rendition and mass killing and stealing resources, etc.
It must be the most profound about-face the world has ever seen but much of the world still can’t see it or won’t believe it. America, since 1945, has been completely corrupted. It is greedy for power, greedy for wealth, and it will do anything to gain more.
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Like you too David, I now have some doubts about the moon landings. I have also heard the same from some Soviet military persons many years ago which is what got me questioning it.
If you haven’t already come across it Dave McGowan has an interesting and ongoing exploration of the Apollo moon landing on his site. http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html Well worth a read even if not all true. I’ve gone to the Bad Astronomy site and similar looking for clarification but they seem just as weird and fanatic in their way as some of the more looney sites around. They certainly don’t handle newbies well and just seem to sit around congratulating each other all day about how clever they are and how stoopid everyone else is who doesn’t toe the party line and having snide in jokes.
Certainly, there is something very wrong about the ‘official’ conspiracy theory about 911. Nothing much about that day makes the least sense and nothing much about the explanation of that day makes any more sense. It is also just one in a long line of government cover ups (at best) and goes back to at least Operation Paperclip at the close of WW2 when the ‘useful’ German Nazis were given a comfortable home and sanctuary in the US (and the UK and Australia, my mother’s best friend was married to one), Operation Gladio and all their false flag atrocities, the assassination right in front of all of us of both Kennedys and MLK and Malcolm X, all the while the goose stepping cross dresser American Stasi supremo remains out of prison, their economic hitmen signing up the third world to their own destruction and now their disaster capitalists apply their vulture capitalism on their own now and soon to be homeless and the remants of the civilisations of the silk road and are aided and protected by what is called the government (of the people, ha!). What ever moral and other capital the US had at the close of WW2, and it was significant, has well and truly long been squandered.
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David G Reply:
September 30th, 2010 at 12:31 am
Magda, your final sentence is sad but true. The only problem is that the leadership of America hasn’t realized it yet. They are still living in a time warp when America was popular.
The world needs to wake America from its dream, tell it a few home truths, point out its folly, suggest that it’s certainly ‘no beacon on a hill’. Who will bell the cat?
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Magda Reply:
September 30th, 2010 at 9:55 am
The American dream has long been a nightmare for many out side the US and the dream is coming to an end for the US middle classes. The US is the greatest threat to the world. I don’t feel the least bit threaten by North Korea, Iran, Lybia, Cuba or Iceland or Togo. I lose sleep regularly over the actions of the US.
The article above on the ‘found’ moon landing tapes is misleading. The original priceless historic treasures of tapes were deleted when they were recorded over after some bozo found them in a box in somewhere. Just what you do to national treasures. What was ‘found’ were the copies of the recordings off the tv of the re-broadcasted images.
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“..a time warp when America was popular..”
The World will hopefully realize this and inform US and (help) wake US up.
A worthy dream of a worthy people.
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Magda, thanks for the information about the moon tapes. I regularly lose sleep over the actions of the U.S. too!
Grace, I still can’t believe how much America has changed since 1945. Once it was a country that I truly admired.
Cheers.
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The US ruling class was divided about the Nazis. Many of them believed in cooperating with Hitler, including George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush, whose spawn were vice-president and president for 20 years total since WW11. Sure, the faction led by FDR fought Hitler, but FDR died before the war was over, and Hitler was only the figurehead for the real money and power in Germany, massively intertwined with American money and power.
After WW11, the pro-fascists took over. The Ratline saved many nazis, the US occupation put many of them back in place, the CIA and the military, (and the space program) incorporated many of them.
JFK crossed them and was murdered. The US war machine grew apace.
I am surprised that non-Americans would have still looked up to the US after the brutal attack on the small countries of Southeast Asia, let alone the US-backed death squads and torture of the people of Central and South America.
I guess it shows the power of propaganda.
And 9-11 is an incredible piece of propaganda. How did they manage to turn what could have been framed as a massive intelligence and military failure into a triumph for the Bush-Cheney junta?
How did they manage to destroy a crime scene, and play it as “heroes” working to “clean-up” the site?
How did they manage to stop any investigation for years, and then to have an “investigation” headed by a Bush neo-con, without subpoena powers(!), that didn’t even mention the implosion of WTC 7?
In any rational society, they would all be in prison now, instead of the 2,000,000 other Americans, not one who has committed a crime as bad as those members of the Bush administration.
And, I was listening to the Thom Hartman show, and a woman from New York called who had been at the United Nations listening to Ahmedinijad give his speech. She said that he didn’t say that he believed that members of the secret team of the government executed the 9-11 plan.
She said that he was laying out the main theories of 9-11 and said that many in the Arab countries believe that the US was involved. This is true. Many Arabs do believe this. So do many Americans!!
The media is lying when they say that Ahmedinijad said that he believed 9-11 truth. (He may believe it, but he didn’t say that in his speech).
So you are being lied to AGAIN!
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What a great comment, Wagelaborer. It highlights the evil that a combination of propaganda and lying creates.
The little people, who are trying to survive in the capitalist jungle, haven’t got time to work our what is really going on or the energy.
So the world drifts on towards the waterfall.
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They did not show us the real moonlanding, because this contains secret information. This world is ruled by ruthless people, they are not interested in us. They want more might and money. They are forming this world into theirs, except it is not theirs. It is ours! We should take it back and restore the peace and the world God desires. If we do not so then democracy will stop! What do you like now? We are not advancing anymore because they do not want us to do so. Saving oil and energy will give them more time. We need to have free acces to unlimited sources of energy. Do not trust them, they are not to be trusted. They are playing these wargames with us, fact is that only they gain. How much time left for the global government to take over? Globalising is what they want. We will be like their slaves. Time can change things, in time we might forget these things. Do not forget this information!!
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